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Talents

NKdotzip

Administrator
Staff member
INDE Staff
#1
Hello everyone! I had something I wanted to pass by you guys to get your thoughts and opinions.

а

To start off, our talents should be very familiar to many of you. They work similarly to feats from D&D and while that familiarity can be handy, I have been contemplating another idea that, I feel, would give you guys more options and greater customization. The idea is this:

Each talents gets split into 3 pieces --аPrimary, Secondary and Tertiary. When a player gets experience, instead of buying a single talent, they can instead build a talent out of these pieces --I'll call them components. They can combine any talent components that they wish, providing they have the experience for it and the talent includes a primary, secondary and tertiary component.

To take this a step further, we could theoretically use this idea to eliminate pre-built combat actions, letting the players create their own through this new talent building system. We could also eliminate many of the classic skill checks that we have and integrate those into this system as well.

а

So that's the idea, its pretty much just conceptual at this point but I wanted to get your feedback, so let me know.
 
#2
If it works how I think it does I like it, but I think it would also help if we could have an example of three talents (each with primary, secondary, and tertiary) so we could see how they actually combine and interact with each other.
 

fnar777

Grunt
Shattered Core Backer
#3
I'm a fan of lots of customization, but be wary of making it overly complex or padded. That's my issue with gurps
 

dreamerofdays

New Member
Shattered Core Backer
#4
That sounds very "Epic Spell Wars of the Battle Wizards: Duel at Mt. Skullzfyre", which I like. Do the components have presets? Like "choose a primary from this list, secondary from this list, and tertiary from that list"?

Also, could we buy, say, a talent with a primary and secondary effect, but not a tertiary initially, then choose a tertiary later?

As a caveat, could we change a component out later for a different effect without building a brand new talent?
 

NKdotzip

Administrator
Staff member
INDE Staff
#5
Baconavenger said
If it works how I think it does I like it, but I think it would also help if we could have an example of three talents (each with primary, secondary, and tertiary) so we could see how they actually combine and interact with each other.
I'll work on getting some together.

а

Dreamer-of-Days said
That sounds very "Epic Spell Wars of the Battle Wizards: Duel at Mt. Skullzfyre", which I like. Do the components have presets? Like "choose a primary from this list, secondary from this list, and tertiary from that list"?

Also, could we buy, say, a talent with a primary and secondary effect, but not a tertiary initially, then choose a tertiary later?

As a caveat, could we change a component out later for a different effect without building a brand new talent?
The original idea was that you have to buy all 3 at once, then it gets locked as a talent. Then, when you want to build something new you just buy the pieces. I was sort of envisioning the structure as:

Talent A

Fluffy Description

Primary: Description - XP Cost

Secondary: Description - XP Cost

Tertiary: Description - XP Cost

а

But as I said in the OP, it's just an idea at this point and its pretty malleable, so some of your suggestions could work as well. The big issue with this is that it would be a pretty massive change from how the game works currently, and would be a considerable project to take on.
 

Konrad

Administrator
Staff member
INDE Staff
#6
To follow up, the team has since decided that while the idea leads to a lot of incredible combinations, the system was far too complex to allow for the kind of easy-paced gaming we desire. Far too much time and effort would have been spent on tracking the innumerable talent combinations all the players created, and we as developers simply don't have the time to implement, playtest, and fairly balance such a monstrous system.
 

fnar777

Grunt
Shattered Core Backer
#7
Konrad said
To follow up, the team has since decided that while the idea leads to a lot of incredible combinations, the system was far too complex to allow for the kind of easy-paced gaming we desire. Far too much time and effort would have been spent on tracking the innumerable talent combinations all the players created, and we as developers simply don't have the time to implement, playtest, and fairly balance such a monstrous system.
Maybe in Shattered 2e, eh?
 

Pul

Administrator
Staff member
INDE Staff
#8
fnar777 said
Konrad said
To follow up, the team has since decided that while the idea leads to a lot of incredible combinations, the system was far too complex to allow for the kind of easy-paced gaming we desire. Far too much time and effort would have been spent on tracking the innumerable talent combinations all the players created, and we as developers simply don't have the time to implement, playtest, and fairly balance such a monstrous system.
Maybe in Shattered 2e, eh?
Well, it was insanely complex.а
Even being one championing one version of that proposal it got rather complex very fast. A "small" sample took about a month to write, was around 15 pages long, and covered maybe 10% of the talents at hand.

Just if there were 40 base components (Which there would've been a few hundred if fully implemented) we had 64,000 possible talents that could be made.
How could we even attempt to balance that, with XP costs, Stat requirements etc.

I loved the idea for it's flexibility but the implementation was rather intense, and I'm glad we found a solution allowing for easier combination of archetypes.
Though if there is enough desire for something of the sort then perhaps in 2e we'll take another stab at it :D
Priority #1 though is 1e :D hehe.
 

fnar777

Grunt
Shattered Core Backer
#9
Pul said
fnar777 said
Konrad said
To follow up, the team has since decided that while the idea leads to a lot of incredible combinations, the system was far too complex to allow for the kind of easy-paced gaming we desire. Far too much time and effort would have been spent on tracking the innumerable talent combinations all the players created, and we as developers simply don't have the time to implement, playtest, and fairly balance such a monstrous system.
Maybe in Shattered 2e, eh?
Well, it was insanely complex.а
Even being one championing one version of that proposal it got rather complex very fast. A "small" sample took about a month to write, was around 15 pages long, and covered maybe 10% of the talents at hand.
Just if there were 40 base components (Which there would've been a few hundred if fully implemented) we had 64,000 possible talents that could be made.
How could we even attempt to balance that, with XP costs, Stat requirements etc.
I loved the idea for it's flexibility but the implementation was rather intense, and I'm glad we found a solution allowing for easier combination of archetypes.
Though if there is enough desire for something of the sort then perhaps in 2e we'll take another stab at it :D
Priority #1 though is 1e :D hehe.
Jeez o.o I can't imagine trying without having a million playtesters :/

I'm not judging, I can't even get my idea for an rpg on paper, so you guys are leagues ahead of me >~<
 

ANG

New Member
#10
I have to say, even if you broke it down to three stages of a talent, this would add serious amounts of design elements.

I would provide a possible alternative when it comes to this style of design though. Back in my heavy days of RPG's, we had the 8+ hour, non-stop sessions every weekend on saturday. I was running out of options to enhance the monsters or elements so I created a monster that was unique each and every time but with a reason behind it.

They were called the 'Hand of (forgotten name here)' and they were effectively clones that were created in different body styles. Then each clone was individually altered (using DC tables of my own creation) to try to find the ultimate form for their god. It was a religious cult before, but after some fun things happened to the world the clones had forgotten the religion and only remembered their purpose. Overall, they reaped the land for 'parts' to enhance their new brothers (they were all male).а

I think that provide an interesting option for any mechanical monsters, or possibly even clones or highly mutagenic creatures within your world. While you cannot create the option above, maybe it can live on here in a monster or two?